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Hello and welcome to
"Watch This Space".

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I am Jim Bridenstine, the
NASA Administrator and

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today we we're going to
talk about the James Webb

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Space Telescope which is
going to change the way we

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see not only our galaxy
but other galaxies and the

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entire universe, in fact,
we are going to look back

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to the very dawn of time
with the James Webb Space

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Telescope.

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Today I have two
amazing guests.

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Dr. John Mather is NASA's
Nobel prize winning

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scientist, and he is
also the senior project

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scientist on the James
Webb Space Telescope and

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Dr. Thomas Zurbuchen,
Associate Administrator of

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the Science Mission
Directorate here at NASA.

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Gentlemen, thank you so
much for joining me here

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today.

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>> Glad to be here.

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>>Good to be here.

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>> Awesome.

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So, Dr. Mather tell me
from your perspective, you

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are going to be the senior
project scientist on the

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James Webb Space
Telescope.

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How excite ready you about
this mission and why?

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>> It is the most exciting
thing I could possibly

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imagine to be working on.

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It is the successor for
the Hubble Space Telescope

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and it will be far more
powerful and much larger

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and be able to see things
the Hubble could never

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see.

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>> Is that right?

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>> So, it can see the
thing the Hubble can't see

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because it is larger and
picks up infrared light

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which the Hubble cannot do
so infrared light comes

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from things that are too
cool to emit visible

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light, you are emitting
infrared light so we are

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building a telescope that
could see a bumble bee at

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the distance of a moon
just from the heat that

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the bumble bee gives off.

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>> So, this enables
us in the infrared

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electromagnetic spectrum
this enables us to see

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potentially stars from a
very, very long time ago,

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obviously, stars that
wouldn't even exist today.

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>> But their wave length
as it traveled toward the

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Earth, the wavelength has
expanded and so it is in a

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different part of the
electromagnetic spectrum

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and that's what we
will be able to see?

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>> That's a big part of
it that we see the most

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distant Galaxy we can
possibly imagine finding,

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we are looking for the
first ones that formed

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after the expansion of the
universe began, we call it

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the "Big Bang" and what
what happened after that?

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The galaxies were formed
but we don't know how.

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>> Dr. Thomas Zurbuchen,
you are Associate

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Administrator of the
The Science Mission

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Directorate so, you have
responsibility over this

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program as well
as so many others.

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Share with us, going back
in time, how James Webb

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came into being ultimately
as a program, and where

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you see it going
in the future.

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>> The questions that
John just address ready

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questions that have been
with us for many, many

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decades, and the
telescope, of course, came

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into being after I would
say the success of Hubble

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which really, I would say
without Hubble there is no

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Webb, right?

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It is a magnificent
telescope which is still

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the most productive
science machine we have up

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there, close to 1,000
publication a year come

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from that one telescope,
it is just out of any

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other realm, I mean it
is just so amazing, so

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basically, what happened,
something like two decades

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ago, scientists came
together as part of the

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National Academies and
basically, said like what

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would be the next
big telescope?

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And they imagined Webb,
which as John said is

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important for two reasons,
the first one is, it is

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cold.

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The second one,
is it is big.

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And those two
characteristics really

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grow the Webb and of
course started the process

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that let it evolve to
where we are today with

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telescope in which
basically all parts are

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built, and we're in
integration and test.

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>> Tell me, how complex
of a spacecraft is this?

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And how complex of a
scientist instrument is on

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board?

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>> I can talk about
the spacecraft.

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I will let you talk
about the instrument.

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Spacecraft is complex
for two reasons.

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The first one is that it
is a deployed mirror,

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right?

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Because the whole thing
unfurls -- like some

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origami type structure and
then it is put in place

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very, very accurately.

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>> Tell me this origami
type structure you are

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talking about the
spacecraft itself, what is

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the origami type
structure for?

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>> Imagine the mirror
itself is six and a half

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meters, that the
protection shield which

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again, is there to cool
everything down, is the

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area of a tennis court, so
there is no rocket that

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fits in.

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>> So, the thermal
protection shield, just

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for audience, we are
talking about something

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that blocks the sun so
that ultimately, we can

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have the absolute coldest
mirror possible to detect

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the heat signature
from infrared?

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>> Absolutely.

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It blocks some five times
over, that's how many such

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tennis courts
we are deployed.

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>> Okay.

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>> A small aluminum
foils that are out there

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deployed, and you know out
in space doing exactly

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what you said.

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>> Okay.

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>> Awesome.

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So that is
complex in itself.

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>> Oh, god it is.

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>> How many moving parts
in order to deploy that?

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>> Well, I mean, there is
between 300 and 350 single

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points that move or kind
of deploy in one fashion

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or another for
this to occur.

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>> Okay.

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And every single one
of them have to work

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perfectly for this
to deploy perfectly?

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>> The vast
majority of them.

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Some of these, something
like 50 or so, if they

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don't work, you know, we
can work around it, the

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others, yes, this
have to work.

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So, in other words
you can't just have a

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half-deployed tennis court
out there, it would be

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really hard, it is really
hard to actually fly the

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spacecraft and it would
not be as cold as it needs

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to be.

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>> Okay.

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As far as the scientific
instruments on board, how

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complex are those and the
challenges that we have?

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>> Well, they are very
complex, what makes them

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especially difficult is
they have to be cold also,

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some of them run at seven
degrees Kelvin, very close

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to absolute zero, and some
at 40 degrees Kelvin, also

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very cold.

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So, this is something that
we can do, but it is not

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familiar.

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>> So, Dr. Zurbuchen, tell
us where are we right now

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with James Webb and what
can we expect as far as

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when are we going to see
the first science from it

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and ultimately when can
the public be inspired by

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it?

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>> So, the good news is,
all of the parts of the

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telescope are basically
built, they are standing

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in California in one
company, altogether.

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>> Good.

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>> And are being
integrated and tested and

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we are right now in the
test program of the

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spacecraft, you know that
tennis court, in all of

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the sun shield, all of
these things, we are

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testing right now, and
are basically, doing

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everything we need to do,
cooling, we are shaking

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it, we are blasting sound
at it to make sure it can

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survive launch
and so forth.

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Right afterwards, the
telescope Otis, the

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instruments in the
telescope are being

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integrated with the
spacecraft and then the

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whole test program or a
.. subset thereof starts

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again and we make
sure that this entire

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spacecraft with its
instrument cab actually

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survive launch.

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>> Okay.

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>> And can be deployed and
then we ship it and get it

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to space and if everything
goes well, goes up in '21,

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it is out there and starts
deploying over a time

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period of about
John >> two weeks.

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>> yes.

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John and I will be very
nervous in that time

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period because we are
going to get data back on

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the ground about all of
these single points, all

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of these little things
puffs that make sure that,

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you know, this sun shield
deploys, that everything

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goes just like planned.

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>> As much as we have
invested into this

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critically important
scientific instrument, we

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have to get it complete,
and, you know, my

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understanding is we are on
the five-yard line and as

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you mentioned all of the
components are built.

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All we have to do now is
punch it into the end

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zone.

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We are all very
excited about that.

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How confident are you that
the new schedule that we

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are going to lay out,
which says we are going to

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launch in March of 2021,
how confident are you we

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will be able to
accomplish that?

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>> I am confident that
the schedule is precisely

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sufficient and also, the
funding that we have

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allocated is sufficient
to get us over the finish

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line, like you said.

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>> Okay.

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>> We have to execute.

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We have the team.

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We have independent voices
that have told us this is

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what it takes, this is
sufficient, we have done

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exactly that and now it
is a matter of, you know,

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lining up the team,
like you said.

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>> Yes, and
carrying that ball.

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>> We probably were
excessively optimistic on

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how -- on how the
integration and testing

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was going to go.

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The sun shield proved
to be very complex and

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deploying it and then
refolding it, of course,

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has proven to be a
challenge and all of this

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has to be tested.

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We want to discover any
challenges on Earth rather

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than after it is a million
miles away from Earth,

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where it can no longer be
serviced, so this is all

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part of the
normal process.

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We discovered that sun
shield is going to be more

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complex than usual.

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And that it was going
to require more time.

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We called for an
independent review board.

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They have now finished
their assessment and they

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have given them to us.

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Tell me, Dr. Zurbuchen,
what are some of the

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biggest challenges and
what are we doing to

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address those challenges?

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>> The key recommendations
that came back to us, as

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you mentioned, we have
accepted all of them.

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But the key
recommendations that came

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back really focused on
mission success overall,

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and one of them, relates
to really looking at this

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deployment sequence, over
weeks and months as we

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cool down, but the two
weeks deployment sequence

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in the same way as we look
at a Mars landing, entry

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descent and landing, again
a very nerve wracking time

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in which you, it
just has to work.

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There is no go backs.

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It has to work.

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>> Right.

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>> And so basically we
have actually, we are

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putting in place a
manager, very senior

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management to just oversee
that in isolation of

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everything else, of course
together with everything

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else, but that is a focus.

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>> So a single world class
systems engineer that can

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oversee end to end the
deployment of the James

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Webb once it is in space?

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>> Exactly right.

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And so that was the
recommendation that we

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have put place.

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>> Okay.

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The second piece and I
would argue is probably

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the most important one,
is that we focus on human

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errors and
embedded problems.

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Embedded problems are
human errors we haven't

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found yet that if you
want, asleep in the system

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somewhere it will come up
in integration and test

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and if we are not careful
even worse in space.

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>> What NASA is doing is
something that has never

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been done before.

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This is a very complex
system so I want to

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reemphasize that's a great
point you just made.

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We want to find these
things out on Earth, not

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in space.

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>> Exactly right.

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And so it is really
unusual with James Webb,

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so we found integration we
have 107 science missions

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right now, some in flight
and some in the ground, in

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all of them we are doing
integration tests or have

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done it, right?

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What is unusual here is
the enormous complexity of

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the mission, so basically
what happens is you make a

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mistake, what happens, it
costs a lot of money and a

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lot of time, just because
this very complex

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machinery comes to a
grinding halt right there.

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>> So one small mistake
has massive impact?

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Exactly right.

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So what you have to do,
let's go back to your

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football analogy, you have
to build a dream team,

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nobody can lose their
role, and everybody has to

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communicate with each
other and so that actually

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-- so here at Headquarters
through NASA Goddard, you

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know, our managing
organization, Northrup

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Grumman where this is
done, all the way to the

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shop floor with the
technicians with the

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screwdriver in their hand,
and it turns out that

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technician is actually
more important than I am.

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>> Yes.

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>> At this moment in time,
probably in general, but

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in this moment in time,
what she does on the floor

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affects this telescope in
a direct fashion and she

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needs to tell us if there
is any worry and needs to,

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in fact, with her
colleagues fix those

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worries right away, and so
basically, it is really

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building that awareness,
that's how we cut down

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human errors, we all make
mistakes but the impact of

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mistakes can be eliminated
if we have checks and

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balances, we help each
other when I touch a

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screw, you check that
I do it the right way.

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>> Right.

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And say stop, that
does not make sense.

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So that is the type of
recommendations that were

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done.

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Build those systems
and make sure that the

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vigilance goes up, a lot.

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>> As the senior project
scientist, what are some

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of the things you are
thinking about as you go

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through -- they call it
the commissioning process,

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where we're deploying
the sun shield, we are

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deploying the antennas
that are going to

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communicate back to Earth,
there is a whole host of

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different booms and pulley
systems that ultimately

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are going to have to be
deployed on this vehicle.

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What are some of the
things you are thinking

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about and how do you
provide mission assurance

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once it is in orbit or
once it is in space?

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>> It is very tricky to
deploy this thing, but we

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rehearse everything
in advance.

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Many times here on the
ground, we deploy and

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fold, deploy and fold
again and then in space we

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know what we are going to
do, much of the detail has

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already been worked out.

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Day by day, hour by hour,
minute-by-minute, what we

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are going to do when we
get there, and we already

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have plans for what
happens just in case

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something isn't
quite right.

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We have TELEMETRY which is
instrumentation on board a

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to tell us whether things
have been done correctly.

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And we have a plan for
what happens just in case.

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So for instance, we have
on everything that is

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supposed to move we have
two ways to make it move,

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a motor has two sets of
windings and two sets of

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electronics to control it,
so if one doesn't work we

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try the other one.

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So that is one of the ways
that we know it should

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work, but we will
certainly be watching it

335
00:14:21,026 --> 00:14:23,929
very carefully and
thinking about it as it

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goes.

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00:14:24,430 --> 00:14:28,801
>> So this makes it in a
way less hazardous than

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the Mars lander I which had
to do it all by itself.

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We get to watch the
step-by-step by step

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process and intervene if
something is not quite

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right and we have
our backup plan.

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00:14:39,979 --> 00:14:42,481
>> There are concerns here
that are very real and

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need to be respected and
we are going to follow the

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guidance of the
independent review board,

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but at the same time
we are going to be

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successful, we are going
to get this spacecraft

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00:14:51,323 --> 00:14:54,260
launched and we are going
to see back to the very

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beginning of time,
which is going to be

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revolutionary in the
history of science.

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So thank you, gentlemen
for joining me today.

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This is "Watch
This Space".